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shindeiru
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| Post subject: 67:5 |
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Salaam brother, How are you?
Its been a long time i havent been around. I see you made some great progress with your translation, may Allah help you all the way, reward you, and grant you that you be grateful to Him for what He taught you.
I actually was interested in comparing several translations of 67:5 and none of them really satisfied me, maybe you could offer your help.
وَلَقَدْ زَيَّنَّا السَّمَاءَ الدُّنْيَا بِمَصَابِيحَ وَجَعَلْنَاهَا رُجُومًا لِلشَّيَاطِينِ ۖ وَأَعْتَدْنَا لَهُمْ عَذَابَ السَّعِيرِ
The "ha" in جَعَلْنَاهَا should normally refer to the sama', not to the masabih isnt it? All other translators relate جَعَلْنَاهَا to the masabih but shouldnt it be "hum" for them to be correct?
_________________
shindeiru/MastaBlaster/Eagle |
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 Posted:
Sat 23 Oct, 2010 2:21 am |
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BMZ
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| Post subject: Re: 67:5 |
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| shindeiru wrote:
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Salaam brother, How are you?
Its been a long time i havent been around. I see you made some great progress with your translation, may Allah help you all the way, reward you, and grant you that you be grateful to Him for what He taught you.
I actually was interested in comparing several translations of 67:5 and none of them really satisfied me, maybe you could offer your help.
وَلَقَدْ زَيَّنَّا السَّمَاءَ الدُّنْيَا بِمَصَابِيحَ وَجَعَلْنَاهَا رُجُومًا لِلشَّيَاطِينِ ۖ وَأَعْتَدْنَا لَهُمْ عَذَابَ السَّعِيرِ
The "ha" in جَعَلْنَاهَا should normally refer to the sama', not to the masabih isnt it? All other translators relate جَعَلْنَاهَا to the masabih but shouldnt it be "hum" for them to be correct?
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Salaams, bro
That is an excellent question. While you wait for Ahmed's answer, I would like to answer and Ahmed can correct me if I am wrong.
I don't think the 'ha' in Ja-al-na-ha is because of Samaa alone.
The Arabic word for lamp is Misbah and the plural is Masabih.
Since the Masabih (already plural) in the Samaa, belong to the Dunia (female gender), a "ha" was added to Masabih.
So, Masabih-ha became a collective noun Masabiha (female gender again) and because of Masabiha, Ja'al-naha was used for it.
I would also love to hear what Ahmed has to say as he is a master of the language.
Salaams & good night
BMZ |
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Posted:
Sat 23 Oct, 2010 4:40 am |
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AhmedBahgat
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| Post subject: Re: 67:5 |
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| shindeiru wrote:
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Salaam brother, How are you?
Its been a long time i havent been around. I see you made some great progress with your translation, may Allah help you all the way, reward you, and grant you that you be grateful to Him for what He taught you.
I actually was interested in comparing several translations of 67:5 and none of them really satisfied me, maybe you could offer your help.
وَلَقَدْ زَيَّنَّا السَّمَاءَ الدُّنْيَا بِمَصَابِيحَ وَجَعَلْنَاهَا رُجُومًا لِلشَّيَاطِينِ ۖ وَأَعْتَدْنَا لَهُمْ عَذَابَ السَّعِيرِ
The "ha" in جَعَلْنَاهَا should normally refer to the sama', not to the masabih isnt it? All other translators relate جَعَلْنَاهَا to the masabih but shouldnt it be "hum" for them to be correct?
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Salam dear brother
I am good, alhamdullelah, yeh mate I finished the second draft about 8 weeks ago, still have a lot of work to do
It should mean that:
Either the sky is the place of stoning, i.e. Rijuma
Or the sky is used to pelt the devils with meteors.
Remember that the meteors will shoot the devils from above them, and remember that Sama also means anything above you
Take care mate
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Posted:
Sat 23 Oct, 2010 7:08 am |
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AhmedBahgat
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| Post subject: Re: 67:5 |
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| BMZ wrote:
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Salaams, bro
That is an excellent question. While you wait for Ahmed's answer, I would like to answer and Ahmed can correct me if I am wrong.
I don't think the 'ha' in Ja-al-na-ha is because of Samaa alone.
The Arabic word for lamp is Misbah and the plural is Masabih.
Since the Masabih (already plural) in the Samaa, belong to the Dunia (female gender), a "ha" was added to Masabih.
So, Masabih-ha became a collective noun Masabiha (female gender again) and because of Masabiha, Ja'al-naha was used for it.
I would also love to hear what Ahmed has to say as he is a master of the language.
Salaams & good night
BMZ
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Indeed mante, very good question,
Just be aware that we can use the singualr Damir 'Ha' to refer to Plural feminine, and in this case it can be referring to the many Sama (meteors above you) to pelt the devil, i.e. the Samawat (skies) are used to indirectly refer to meteors
Cheers
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Posted:
Sat 23 Oct, 2010 7:12 am |
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shindeiru
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So the "ha" could refer to both the masabiha and the samaa?
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shindeiru/MastaBlaster/Eagle |
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Posted:
Sat 23 Oct, 2010 8:54 am |
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AhmedBahgat
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| shindeiru wrote:
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So the "ha" could refer to both the masabiha and the samaa?
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Salam mate
If I go for what I believe is right, then the Ha is referring to the pllural Samawat in leiu of the plural meteors
i.e. the Samawat (what is above you which applies to meteors or anything above you) are made to stone the devils
It is a tough question bro, however I feel comfortable to what I stated but I will inshaallah contact a few Arabic speakers in Egypt and raise the issue with them.
If you are debating with kafirs who are arguing that Ha cannot refer to Meteors becuase in that case it should be 'Hum", then what I stated is technically right from the language point of veiw and should be enough to disable them, here it is again in points:
1- The singualr feminie damir "Ha" is commonly used to refer to plural feminine, i can show you numerous examples from Quran if you wish
2- The singualr damir 'Ha' is indirectly referring to the meteors that are made to shoot the devils from above, however the samawat (literally skies) can be used to refer metaphorically to meteors or anything above you, and becuase Samawat is plural feminine, we can refer to it using the singualr feminine 'Ha'
Cheers
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Posted:
Sat 23 Oct, 2010 9:11 am |
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shindeiru
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Salam brother,
Since the verse 67:5 does not speak of samawaat in plural (it says samaa addunya) then it means the "ha" must be referring to the only feminine plural preceding it, that is masabiha. Am i correct?
_________________
shindeiru/MastaBlaster/Eagle |
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Posted:
Sat 23 Oct, 2010 9:55 am |
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AhmedBahgat
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| shindeiru wrote:
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Salam brother,
Since the verse 67:5 does not speak of samawaat in plural (it says samaa addunya) then it means the "ha" must be referring to the only feminine plural preceding it, that is masabiha. Am i correct?
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Salam mate
What you are saying is, certianly, technically correct, in fact it is the apparent meaning of the context if we are to exclude the possibilty of using a metaphor of the plural samawat, however the plural and metaphorcial samawat is still valid, because it may be referring to the plural masabih using the plural samawat
But let me just say this, let's take it as you understand it which is 100% valid, i.e. the ha is reffeing to the singualr Sama, the verse is still very accurate, becuase in that case the meaning should be:
And we made it a place for stonning (the devils)
The Arabic words and their gramar use under Blaghah is very flexable to accomadate all what we are talking
about, very impressing indeed
Cheers
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Posted:
Sat 23 Oct, 2010 10:25 am |
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AhmedBahgat
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Salam bro shindeiro
Do you use this email fomor789@......... (not putting the whle email for privecy), if so, please update your profile with a valid email as I keep getting NDRs (non deliverable notices) that this email is invalid when replies is posted to your thread
Cheers
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Posted:
Sat 23 Oct, 2010 10:31 am |
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shindeiru
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Salaam, no this is not my email.
Ok this is how i originally understood it. "..and we have made it (samaa addunya) a place of projectiles.."
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shindeiru/MastaBlaster/Eagle |
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Posted:
Sat 23 Oct, 2010 8:12 pm |
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AhmedBahgat
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| shindeiru wrote:
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Salaam, no this is not my email.
Ok this is how i originally understood it. "..and we have made it (samaa addunya) a place of projectiles.."
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Great, this is how I also understand it too, i was only trying to look at all possible understandings to leave to the kafirs no room to argue
Cheers
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Posted:
Sat 23 Oct, 2010 8:36 pm |
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AhmedBahgat
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Salam bro
It is the email stored for you in the DB, if you are getting mail notification about our thread replies then dont worry about it
Cheers
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Posted:
Sat 23 Oct, 2010 8:41 pm |
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