You listen to such Christian jerk on youtube, hahahahaha
So you reckon that Allah encrypted the message: Al Masih Ilahi, i.e. Christ is my god using the children method that is called ABGAD HAWAZ "adding such numbers to suit anyone's need" WHILE AT THE SAME TIME telling us clearly and without encryption, the following:
Indeed they have disbelieved those who said: Allah is the Messiah, son of Marium. Say: Who then could stop Allah if He wished to destroy the Messiah son of Marium and his mother and those on the earth all together? And to Allah is the kingdom of the heavens and the earth and what is between them; He creates what He desires; and Allah over everything is Capable. [Al Quran ; 5:17]
لَّقَدْ كَفَرَ الَّذِينَ قَآلُواْ إِنَّ اللّهَ هُوَ الْمَسِيحُ ابْنُ مَرْيَمَ قُلْ فَمَن يَمْلِكُ مِنَ اللّهِ شَيْئًا إِنْ أَرَادَ أَن يُهْلِكَ الْمَسِيحَ ابْنَ مَرْيَمَ وَأُمَّهُ وَمَن فِي الأَرْضِ جَمِيعًا وَلِلّهِ مُلْكُ السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالأَرْضِ وَمَا بَيْنَهُمَا يَخْلُقُ مَا يَشَاء وَاللّهُ عَلَى كُلِّ شَيْءٍ قَدِيرٌ (17)
-> See how clearly it is said , you confused: لَّقَدْ كَفَرَ الَّذِينَ قَآلُواْ إِنَّ اللّهَ هُوَ الْمَسِيحُ, i.e. Indeed they have disbelieved those who said: Allah is the Messiah, remember what your confused Christian pal claimed on his youtyube video, that the Quran encrypted the message of christ is my god", i.e. according to 5:17 above, your Christian pal HAS DISBELIEVED, i guess you too sam, has disbelieved ACCORDING TO THE QURAN THAT YOU PUNKS ARE USING TO PROVE THE DIVINITY OF JESUS
Well, I have more surprises for you, Dumb and Dumber, again from the book you love that much, the Quran, let's have a look:
Indeed they have disbelieved those who said: Allah is the Messiah, son of Marium; and the Messiah said: O Children of Israel! Worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord. Certainly whoever associates others with Allah, then Allah has forbidden to him the garden, and his abode is the fire; and for the unjust there shall be no helpers. [Al Quran ; 5:72]
لَقَدْ كَفَرَ الَّذِينَ قَالُواْ إِنَّ اللّهَ هُوَ الْمَسِيحُ ابْنُ مَرْيَمَ وَقَالَ الْمَسِيحُ يَا بَنِي إِسْرَائِيلَ اعْبُدُواْ اللّهَ رَبِّي وَرَبَّكُمْ إِنَّهُ مَن يُشْرِكْ بِاللّهِ فَقَدْ حَرَّمَ اللّهُ عَلَيهِ الْجَنَّةَ وَمَأْوَاهُ النَّارُ وَمَا لِلظَّالِمِينَ مِنْ أَنصَارٍ (72)
-> LOL, see again you bunch of confused idiots bound to hell: لَقَدْ كَفَرَ الَّذِينَ قَالُواْ إِنَّ اللّهَ هُوَ الْمَسِيحُ, i.e. Indeed they have disbelieved those who said: Allah is the Messiah, i.e. for the second UN-ENCRYPTED time, we are told ACCORDING TO THE QURAN, that the two idiot Christians sam and his mentor the youtube jerk, that both have disbelieved, i.e. both are heading on their highway to hell, enjoy the ride, punks
-> Can you see what Christ also said in the verse: وَقَالَ الْمَسِيحُ يَا بَنِي إِسْرَائِيلَ اعْبُدُواْ اللّهَ رَبِّي وَرَبَّكُمْ, i.e. and the Messiah said: O Children of Israel! Worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord., hahahaha, will you obey the words of Christ as stated clearly in the Quran your book of evidences, you bunch of conmen bound to eternal hell? Well I am not cursing you with hell, this is what Christ is telling you above in the same verse from your book of evidences The Quran, see, you jerks: he Messiah said: O Children of Israel! Worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord. Certainly whoever associates others with Allah, then Allah has forbidden to him the garden, and his abode is the fire; and for the unjust there shall be no helpers., WHAT A SHOWTIME IT WILL BE.
Well, I am not done yet, freaks, I have more in my Quran bag, for both of ya, and according to the Quran, your book of proofs, Christ himself clearly and without any of your Barbie encryption was flagged as a slave of God, let's have a look:
The Messiah will never disdain that he should be a slave to Allah, nor do the angels near (to Him), and whoever disdains His worship and is arrogant, then He will gather them to Him all together. [Al Quran ; 4:172]
لَّن يَسْتَنكِفَ الْمَسِيحُ أَن يَكُونَ عَبْداً لِّلّهِ وَلاَ الْمَلآئِكَةُ الْمُقَرَّبُونَ وَمَن يَسْتَنكِفْ عَنْ عِبَادَتِهِ وَيَسْتَكْبِرْ فَسَيَحْشُرُهُمْ إِلَيهِ جَمِيعًا (172)
-> See, idiots: لَّن يَسْتَنكِفَ الْمَسِيحُ أَن يَكُونَ عَبْداً لِّلّهِ, The Messiah will never disdain that he should be a slave to Allah, you must be so embarassed by now.
No wonder you see the conman Apple Pie aka Chicken Lies of FFI, rushing to cheer these idiotic threads that only make FFI look stupid and jerky source of information, on the other hands you do not see any of the double faced kafirs who are portraying themselves as smart goons, like HM, Ixolite, swordoftruth, nosubmission, tashit, etc etc, coming to expose the stupidity of such freaks who only give bad image to FFI, well, let me show you then another verse from my Quran bag:
The Messiah, son of Marium is only a messenger; indeed messengers before him have passed away; and his mother was a truthful woman; they both used to eat the food. See how We explain to them the signs then see how they are deluded. [Al Quran ; 5:75]
مَّا الْمَسِيحُ ابْنُ مَرْيَمَ إِلاَّ رَسُولٌ قَدْ خَلَتْ مِن قَبْلِهِ الرُّسُلُ وَأُمُّهُ صِدِّيقَةٌ كَانَا يَأْكُلاَنِ الطَّعَامَ انظُرْ كَيْفَ نُبَيِّنُ لَهُمُ الآيَاتِ ثُمَّ انظُرْ أَنَّى يُؤْفَكُونَ (75)
-> How clear is that for the Dumb Bums? Or possibly the Dumb Bums can only understand encrypted messages, well, they may try to understand the following unencrypted message: مَّا الْمَسِيحُ ابْنُ مَرْيَمَ إِلاَّ رَسُولٌ, i.e. The Messiah, son of Marium is only a messenger;, ironically the confused Christians ignore the following simple fact about Christ an his mother: they both used to eat the food does not sound like a god, hey, this is how Allah is CLEARLY explaining to us the truth about Jesus: See how We explain to them the signs then see how they are deluded., looks like this verse is talking about sam, chicken lies and the youttube jerk, yes THEY MUST BE DELUDED, what an amazing accuracy by the Quran, I AM SURE THAT EVERY SANE KAFIR ON FFI CAN SEE HOW DELUDED SUCH 3 FREAKS ARE.
Well, do you think I am done?, think not, I still have one more verse in my Quran bag, it actually gives us an amazingly accurate overview to the whole things involved, the lettered verses, what the youtube jerk is doing, and what his confused and manipulated pal, sam, along with the conman resident of FFI, chicken lies are ding, as well what the Muslims should do when they hear such crap:
It is He Who has sent down the Book to you; some of it are decisive signs, they are the mother of the Book, and others are allegorical; but for those in whose hearts there is perversity they follow what is allegorical from it, seeking the discord, and seeking its interpretation, but none knows its interpretation except Allah. And those who are firmly rooted in knowledge say: We believed in it, it is all from our Lord; and none remembers but the people who posses minds.
هُوَ الَّذِيَ أَنزَلَ عَلَيْكَ الْكِتَابَ مِنْهُ آيَاتٌ مُّحْكَمَاتٌ هُنَّ أُمُّ الْكِتَابِ وَأُخَرُ مُتَشَابِهَاتٌ فَأَمَّا الَّذِينَ في قُلُوبِهِمْ زَيْغٌ فَيَتَّبِعُونَ مَا تَشَابَهَ مِنْهُ ابْتِغَاء الْفِتْنَةِ وَابْتِغَاء تَأْوِيلِهِ وَمَا يَعْلَمُ تَأْوِيلَهُ إِلاَّ اللّهُ وَالرَّاسِخُونَ فِي الْعِلْمِ يَقُولُونَ آمَنَّا بِهِ كُلٌّ مِّنْ عِندِ رَبِّنَا وَمَا يَذَّكَّرُ إِلاَّ أُوْلُواْ الألْبَابِ (7)
[The Quran ; 3:7]
Let me walk you through this amazing verse, bit by bit:
-> هُوَ الَّذِيَ أَنزَلَ عَلَيْكَ الْكِتَابَ, It is He Who has sent down the Book to you; , The Quran is referred to in this bit as Al Kitab, i.e. Al Quran was sent down to Mohammad by Allah.
-> مِنْهُ آيَاتٌ مُّحْكَمَاتٌ هُنَّ أُمُّ الْكِتَابِ, some of it are decisive signs, they are the mother of the Book,, Allah is saying to Mohammad and anyone who will read the Quran, that in this book there are verses basics or fundamental of established meaning (decisive signs) those decisive verses were also described as Umma Al Kitab, i.e. the mother of the Book literally, or the foundation of the book logically, therefore the context suggest to the believers that the decisive verses are the ones that they should follow, what about the rest of the Quran then?, in the next bit we read about it:
-> وَأُخَرُ مُتَشَابِهَاتٌ, and others are allegorical;, here is the rest of the Quran, the other portion of the Quran verses are Mutashabihat, i.e. allegorical, i.e. hard to understand, i.e. confusing because it can have more than one meaning, this is not coincidence, it is part of the plan as Allah has told us that He included those allegorical verses in the Quran, now, it is about time to ask why He did that? We don?????????????????????¢??t need to look any where, we only need to continue reading the verse:
-> فَأَمَّا الَّذِينَ في قُلُوبِهِمْ زَيْغٌ فَيَتَّبِعُونَ مَا تَشَابَهَ مِنْهُ ابْتِغَاء الْفِتْنَةِ وَابْتِغَاء تَأْوِيلِهِ, but for those in whose hearts there is perversity they follow what is allegorical from it, seeking the discord, and seeking its interpretation,, the mighty plan objective is revealed, those deliberately inserted allegorical verses like the lettered verses which can never be understood, are there to expose those in whose hearts is perversity believers or not, it applies to all,, the three Christian jerks, sam chicken lies and the yourtube jerk are an example of such kafirs whose hearts are ill and trying to explain the unexplainable to spread discord between the believers, the Rashad Khalifa cult followers, are another example of so called believers who also try to explain the unexplainable, these two groups of the opposite spectrums, in whose hearts is perversity follow the part thereof that is allegorical, seeking discord, and searching for its hidden meanings. HOW ACCURATE THE QURAN IS, AMAZING
There is a very important hint in here, for those seeking discord, in which community there are seeking such discord?, it has to be within the believers community, therefore we have a double test in hand, a test for the unbelievers to see if they will seek discord by speculating the different meanings of those Mutashabihat verses, and another test for the believers to expose who will follow that discord, it can also be considered a test to the unbelievers who don?????????????????????¢??t search for the meanings of these verses neither seek discord between the believers, it will be a test for them exactly like the believers to see if they will follow that discord or not. This is awesome planning, it may sound not fair at the first glance, but if we consider the following, I guess it has to be fair:
In this life, this is how a tester creates a test, he/she includes in the test a bit of tricky questions, he/she never tell us what sort of tricks it will be included though, and yet the process is fair and square to all, in the case of this life test, The Tester Allah has told us in advance what the trick is which is in 3:7, THIS IS FAIRNESS AT ITS MAX, WHAT IS STRIKING THAT, MANY STILL LISTEN TO THAT DISCORD THEN FOLLOW IT AS WE SEE ON 19.org WEB SITE AND ON MANY OTHER WEB SITES. The fact of the matter as stated in the verse regarding such Mutashabihat verses is stated in the same verse as follow:
-> وَمَا يَعْلَمُ تَأْوِيلَهُ إِلاَّ اللّهُ, and none knows its interpretation except Allah., here is the denial that NO ONE WILL KNOW THE MEANING EXCEPT ALLAH. The real believers are those who are well established in the knowedge about Allah, will only have one action to do when faced with such Mutashabihat verse:
-> وَالرَّاسِخُونَ فِي الْعِلْمِ يَقُولُونَ آمَنَّا بِهِ كُلٌّ مِّنْ عِندِ رَبِّنَا, And those who are firmly rooted in knowledge say: We believed in it, it is all from our Lord;, i.e. those who are well established in the knowledge about Allah should never chase the meaning of such Mutashabihat verses, that is why those Muslims who added the note that Allah only knows the meaning of these lettered verses, ARE 100% right. I am 100% sure, when those three jerks read my refute to their crap, they will insist on their crap, this is because they have no brains, only those with brains are going to be the ones to remember, and this is how 3:7 ended:
-> وَمَا يَذَّكَّرُ إِلاَّ أُوْلُواْ الألْبَابِ?????????????????????¢??????????????????????, and none remembers but the people who posses minds..
Clear from the above that Allah deliberately inserted Mutashabihat verses to test all of us and He told us in advance about the trick and it is clear that the verse can?????????????????????¢??t be Mutashabihat because every bit in it is clearly understood and makes great sense within the whole Quran context, the trick outcome as told to us is simply, some will try to search for its meanings seeking discord, others will listen to that discord and the true believers in Allah will just take it as from Allah without searching into its Mutashabihat meanings and they just accept both Mutashabihat and Muhkamat verses as from Allah
Here you have it, another 3 confused Christian freaks are slammed really hard.
# 33
Posted:
Sat 29 Nov, 2008 9:53 am
AhmedBahgat Site Admin
Status: Age: 59 Faith: Islam Gender:
Zodiac: Joined: Oct 16, 2006
Posts: 3236 Location: Australia
Post subject:
Salam All
One of the confused kafirs on FFI raised the following thread:
sum of FFI said:
The subject of stoning has been discussed already and it was shown that Muhammad was a "stoner". He threw stones at those buried up to their necks.
Does anyone know who, in this day and age, throws the stones? Is it a special squad who are trained in stoning like the beheader in Saudi Arabia? Is it people who are conscripted to the task of stoning? Or is it just volunteers?
Is there a stockpile of stones ready for use or do the people wander about looking for the right type of stone?
This is real Islam and we need to let as many people as possible be aware of the brutality of Islam. It is real and it is now. No muslim that I know condemns stoning and wants it banned worldwide because it is barbaric. This is almost certainly because to condemn stoning would be to condemn Muhammad. Not wise.
Any answers?
sum
------------------------------
The problem in here, that Stonning as a punishment is never found in the Quran, it is actually found in te man made corrupt Bible, let's have a look:
Here we go doccy
Stonning/killing is in the man made Bible not the Quran:
12.10 And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die, because he hath sought to thrust thee away from the LORD thy God, who brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage. [Deuteronomy ; 12:10]
17.2 If there be found among you, within any of thy gates which the LORD thy God giveth thee, man or woman who hath wrought wickedness in the sight of the LORD thy God in transgressing His covenant,
17.3 and hath gone and served other gods and worshiped them, either the sun or moon or any of the host of heaven, which I have not commanded,
17.4 and it be told thee, and thou hast heard of it and inquired diligently, and behold, it be true and the thing certain that such abomination is wrought in Israel,
17.5 then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman who has committed that wicked thing unto thy gates, even that man or that woman, and shalt stone them with stones till they die.
17.6 At the mouth of two witnesses or three witnesses shall he that is worthy of death be put to death, but at the mouth of one witness he shall not be put to death. [Deuteronomy ; 17:2-6]
Stonning to death punishment for disobidient sons.
21.21 And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, so that he die. So shalt thou put evil away from among you, and all Israel shall hear and fear. [Deuteronomy ; 21:21]
Stonning to death punishment for non virgin women.
22.20 But if this thing be true, and the tokens of virginity be not found for the damsel, (unmarried women)
22.21 then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father?????????????????????¢??s house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die, because she hath wrought folly in Israel, to play the whore in her father?????????????????????¢??s house; so shalt thou put evil away from among you.
22.22 If a man be found lying with a woman married to a husband, then they shall both of them die, both the man that lay with the woman and the woman; so shalt thou put away evil from Israel.
22.23 If a damsel who is a virgin be betrothed unto a husband, and a man find her in the city and lie with her,
22.24 then ye shall bring them both out unto the gate of that city, and ye shall stone them with stones, that they die ?????????????????????¢?? the damsel, because she cried not, being in the city, and the man,because he hath humbled his neighbor?????????????????????¢??s wife; so thou shalt put away evil from among you. [Deuteronomy ; 22:20-24]
Here you have it Doccy, if you have a problem with some confused Muslim countries applying stonning, then you may ask such confused people, why they are ruling with corrupted scriptures, that they themselves (the Muslims) accept that such man made book called Bible is corrupted?
Another confused kafir bites the dust after being slammed
# 34
Posted:
Mon 01 Dec, 2008 7:11 am
AhmedBahgat Site Admin
Status: Age: 59 Faith: Islam Gender:
Zodiac: Joined: Oct 16, 2006
Posts: 3236 Location: Australia
Post subject:
Salam bro Windsor
Here is a reply from Aksel to your comment:
Aksel of FFI said:
I thought Windsor should join forum as it saves Mr Bahgat from acting as messenger and keep interrupting his show with our off topic chat.
AA wrote:
Zoroastrianism is not racist
Windsor wrote:
I said it thrives on Nazi ideologies (A unique religion for a unique race/ethnicity), which is certainly true.
It's not true, and you are making no sense, how does a religion that predates Christianity thrive upon the racial theories of 20th century Nazis? It thrived for thousands of years without them.
AA wrote:
yes I would be happy to see the majority of Iranians return to Zoroastrianism, it is the homeland of our Prophet after all,
Windsor wrote:
See? This is exactly what I am talking about. Zoroastrians believe in Zoroastriansim mainly because it's the "Persian" religion. It's the religion of our ancient forefathers and the rest of that crap argument. You do not follow Zoroastrianism because it is the true religion, but because you believe it is the "Persian" religion, that all Persians must be Zoroastrians or they would not really be Persians, that they would lose their identity. Most Zoroastrians make religion an ideology and mix religion with race in a disgusting way.
If Zoroaster was not Persian, you would not have believed in such a primitive religion for one second. Rational people follow the true religion, not the primitive religions of their ancient forefathers.
My name Aksel Ankersen might have told you that I'm of Scandinavian descent (a recent convert) and therefore your argument is foolish. You have not given me one example of how Zoroastrians are stupid or our religion is primitive, inspite of claiming it repeatedly. I would be happy to see Zoroastrianism bloom again in Iran, that's where the Prophet started his mission therefore it's a logical centre for Zoroastrianism. If the government of Iran made conversion out of Islam legal for even a week you would see it happeneing.
And I thought Christians were the dumbest among the religious adherents!
Your attitude is annoying indeed; you make offensive and mindless sweeping generalisations about other religions and their followers and yet whine about us "bigots" and our hate site when we put your religion, in it's turn, under the magnifying glass.
Zoroastrians who mix race and religion are certainly putting their national pride ahead of the actual teachings of Zoroastrianism. the religion always has emphasized right mentality and actions, one's racial background is irrelevant:
Zoroaster, Yasna 46:13 wrote:
He who shall please Spitama Zarathushtra, by his noble actions, He indeed is worthy himself to proclaim the doctrines of Thy Faith, O Ahura!
Windsor wrote:
Does he want a reference to what i consider stupid in their scriptures or just any reference?
Anyway I think the whole idea of asha and druj to be laughable really.
You think the concept of truth versus falsehood and righteousness versus sin is laughable? That's what Asha and Druj mean. yes, I would like a specific reference as to what Zoroaster taught that you think stupid. Please.
-Aksel
Posted:
Mon 01 Dec, 2008 7:16 am
AhmedBahgat Site Admin
Status: Age: 59 Faith: Islam Gender:
Zodiac: Joined: Oct 16, 2006
Posts: 3236 Location: Australia
Post subject:
Salam All
One of the confused Christians on FFI, was so pissed that I posted the OT passages above, which clearly show the Bible is so high in ordering the killing of people when they commit the slightest of crimes, like disobeying the parents for example [Deuteronomy ; 21:21], and even for no crime at all, as we have seen that the Bible orders to CHOP OFF the hands of an innocent woman whose only crime was to save her husband who was beaten hard by another man, so she decided to grab him by the balls, a noble act by a smart woman to save her husband, yet the Bible orders to CHOP OFF her hands, this crap is detailed in [Deuteronomy 25:11-12 ]
Therefore, let?????????????????????¢??s see what he has to say:
Nosubmission wrote:
Dear Ahmad, you are full of gas tonight.
Hello
Is that some sort of humor or a complement?
Nosubmission wrote:
Your pagan prophet's drunk scribes fell in love with the supposedly man-made book of the Jews that they copied from it.
Copied it to where exactly, to the Quran or to your man made hearsay hadith?
Well, If in the Quran, then you are wrong and confused because the Quran is not man made, i.e. it could not be authored by my pagan drunk scribes fell in love with the supposedly man-made book of the Jews
If it is the second, i.e. they copied the Jews crap into their man made hearsay hadith, then you are 100% right,
Nosubmission wrote:
I hope you will not discard the following verses in your scripture as remnants of the satanic revelation:
Well, I will make your hopes come true by replying to the Quran verses you posted, however your hope that the Quran contains satanic revelation as the Jews corrupt scripture does, is hopeless
Nosubmission wrote:
Mohammad's scribes said that it was a wise thing to kill youngsters to protect their parents:
Funny indeed, well, for a started, you can not say Mohammed?????????????????????¢??s scribes unless you nominate names for me, like when I say Luke, Matthew, John and Mark scribes, other than that, your BS of using the words Mohammed?????????????????????¢??s Scribes will be totally rejected.
Secondly, we are talking about COMMANDS from the God, you drunk, we are not talking about stories that just happened between some individuals and others, in fact the following verses you posted will clearly shows how confused ignorant and dumb you are:
Nosubmission wrote:
Surah 18:74-75
So they twain journeyed on till, when they met a lad, he slew him. (Moses) said: What! Hast thou slain an innocent soul who hath slain no man ? Verily thou hast done a horrid thing. He said: Did I not tell thee that thou couldst not bear with me ?
Well, that was not a command from Allah for the rest of humanity to do, that was only a command to one of Allah prophets to do with such specific case, Moses was even warned against asking why such prophet did so.
Nosubmission wrote:
Surah 18:80-81
And as for the lad, his parents were believers and we feared lest he should oppress them by rebellion and disbelief. And we intended that their Lord should change him for them for one better in purity and nearer to mercy.
Again, it was an incident that happened and never a command from Allah for the rest of humanity to do you confused, let?????????????????????¢??s see how the command is stated by your god in your corrupt OT:
18: If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them:
19: Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place;
20: And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard.
21: And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.
22: And if a man have committed a sin worthy of death, and he be to be put to death, and thou hang him on a tree:
23: His body shall not remain all night upon the tree, but thou shalt in any wise bury him that day; (for he that is hanged is accursed of God;) that thy land be not defiled, which the LORD thy God giveth thee for an inheritance. [ Deuteronomy ; 21:18-23]
-> See you confused, how it is A COMMAND FOR ALL THE PEOPLE TO DO: If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them, HOW CLEAR, then: shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place;, a command for all mothers and fathers to do so for any rebellious son, then: they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard., i.e. the command of the God for every mother and father when dealing with a glutton, drunkard and rebellious son included humiliating the son in front of every one in the city: And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear. , see you dumb, NOT ONLY HIS PARENTS THAT SHOULD STONE HIM RATHER THE WHOLE TOWN MUST DO SO, the Bible is so high on horrifying scenes that the chapter ended up by telling us: : And if a man have committed a sin worthy of death, and he be to be put to death, and thou hang him on a tree: and His body shall not remain all night upon the tree, but thou shalt in any wise bury him that day; (for he that is hanged is accursed of God;) that thy land be not defiled, which the LORD thy God giveth thee for an inheritance. , CAN YOU SEE MISTER COFUSED CHRISTIAN HOW IT IS A COMMAND FOR THE GOD OF YOUR CORRUPT SCRIPTURES?
Now compare the above COMMANDS with the story of Moses and the prophet whom he accompanied, IT WAS NEVER A COMMAND FOR THE BELIEVERS IN INHERIT AND IMPLEMENT YOU DESPERATE CHRISTIAN
That should be a slam btw but it is not worthy to add to my show
Nosubmission wrote:
look what your Koran says about the punishment of disbelievers:
Nosubmission wrote:
Surah 5:33
The only reward of those who make war upon Allah and His messenger and strive after corruption in the land will be that they will be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet on alternate sides cut off, or will be expelled out of the land. Such will be their degradation in the world, and in the Hereafter theirs will be an awful doom.
How confused and desperate you are, the following verse is not in anyway stating the punishment of the disbelievers, HAHAHAHA, the verse below is stating the punishment for a certain type of people, let me bring my translation as this verse draft was done by FI:
The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is that, they should be killed or crucified or their hands and their feet be cut off on opposite sides or they should be expelled from the land; this is for them a disgrace in this world, and for them in the hereafter a great torture. [Al Quran ; 5:33]
إِنَّمَا جَزَاءُ الَّذِينَ يُحَارِبُونَ اللَّهَ وَرَسُولَهُ وَيَسْعَوْنَ فِي الْأَرْضِ فَسَادًا أَنْ يُقَتَّلُوا أَوْ يُصَلَّبُوا أَوْ تُقَطَّعَ أَيْدِيهِمْ وَأَرْجُلُهُمْ مِنْ خِلَافٍ أَوْ يُنْفَوْا مِنَ الْأَرْضِ ۚ ذَٰلِكَ لَهُمْ خِزْيٌ فِي الدُّنْيَا ۖ وَلَهُمْ فِي الْآخِرَةِ عَذَابٌ عَظِيمٌ (33)
-> Firstly, I agree totally that the above is a command from Allah for all the believers to follow, however the verse above is talking about two crimes:
1) A specific crime which is: those who wage war against Allah and His messenger which does not mean an disbeliever in general you confused, rather a disbeliever who wage war against Allah and His messenger, i.e. the punishment can not be applied to a disbeliever who DOES NOT wage war against Allah and His messenger
2) A general crime which is : and strive to make mischief in the land , now striving to make mischief in the land can be a lot of things, for example terror attacks has to be covered under mischief in the land, i.e. we are talking about ill criminals who strive to cause mischief in the land, rape and armed robbery can be other examples of causing mischief in the land
Now, the verse above is so accurate that it is giving us FOUR possible punishments:
1) they should be killed
OR
2) crucified
OR
3) their hands and their feet be cut off on opposite sides
OR
4) be expelled from the land ,
How wise from the verse, we are dealing with criminals who wage war on Allah and His messenger or other criminals who strive to cause mischief in the land, yet we are given 4 possible punishments to select one that fits the level of their crime, YOU CAN NEVER SEE SUCH DETAILS IN THE CORRUPT BIBLE, IT ALWAYS SHOWS NO PITY for the criminals or even non criminals like the brave wife who committed no crime. In the Quran verse above we have option 4 which can also mean put in prison, because you can not expel a native to any country from such country unless another country accepts him/her. So in the case of no country accepting such criminal to move there, there will be no other option but to jail such criminal in his own country (land), which also means expelled from the land because he is forced to live within a confined place.
The above means, even for those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and for those who strive to cause mischief in the land, we may use punishment # 4 from the menu of punishments above, THIS IS OBVIOUS FROM THE QURAN TEXT OF: this OR this OR this OR this . Yet the Quran allows for no punishment at all for the above criminals if they repent before the punishment is executed, this was stated clearly in the next verse, let?????????????????????¢??s have a look:
Except those who repent before you overcome them; therefore know that Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. [Al Quran ; 5:34]
إِلَّا الَّذِينَ تَابُوا مِنْ قَبْلِ أَنْ تَقْدِرُوا عَلَيْهِمْ ۖ فَاعْلَمُوا أَنَّ اللَّهَ غَفُورٌ رَحِيمٌ (34)
-> See how clear it is, you confused Christian: Except those who repent before you overcome them, i.e. before the punishment is executed, this is because therefore know that Allah is Forgiving, Merciful
The Quran has humiliated you no-submission, really bad, this is an obvious slam and must be added to my slam dunk show
# 35
Posted:
Mon 01 Dec, 2008 12:14 pm
AhmedBahgat Site Admin
Status: Age: 59 Faith: Islam Gender:
Zodiac: Joined: Oct 16, 2006
Posts: 3236 Location: Australia
Post subject:
Salam all
This is my next impressive slam dunk:
tawasaubilhaq wrote:
That is a very good, sweet and short explanation, AhmedBahgat. I would have done almost similar.
No worries mate, however I decided to elaborate on 24:33 to leave no room for the manipulators to play with. do not forget that they admitted that this is what they do, manipulate the Quran verses.
tawasaubilhaq wrote:
I would like to make it simpler for the poster to understand by saying, if a girl was raped or forced by a cruel man into submission to his lust, she would be forgiven by Allah.
Well, A woman who is rapped, has committed no sin for it to be forgiven, the whole notion of forgiving a rapped woman is flawed and certainly is not what Allah is talking about in 24:33
tawasaubilhaq wrote:
However, a girl who then continues to make it her profession, then she will not be forgiven.
Now, we are talking about a prostitute, who is committing Baghaa (prostitution), i.e. she is committing Zina, i.e. she is having sex outside what is allowed for her in the Quran, which is also described as Fahisha (indecency), and as we should all know that committing Fahisha is Haram, i.e. Prostitution which is Zina which is Baghaa which is Fahisha is Haram:
And go not nigh to fornication; surely it is an indecency and an evil way. [The Quran ; 17:32]
وَلَا تَقْرَبُوا الزِّنَا ۖ إِنَّهُ كَانَ فَاحِشَةً وَسَاءَ سَبِيلًا (32)
-> I am using Shakir translation for now as I have not started sura 17 translation yet, it is the one to be done next inshaallah, as we can clearly read that the true believers should not come near Zina: وَلَا تَقْرَبُوا الزِّنَا , i.e. And go not nigh to fornication, I believe that to translate the word Zina as Fornication or Adultery may be misleading, this is because I believe that Fornication or Adultery in English most likely mean that a married man or a married woman had sex with others outside the wedlock, while the fact of the matter that the Arabic word Zina does not only cover married men and married woman who have sex outside the wedlock, rather it also covers unmarried men and unmarried women who have sex outsider the wedlock, in fact if you look at what Al Mushrikoon from the Muslims do when they punish an adulterer is to first see if such person is married or not married as they believe that everyone of them has a different punishment according to their Shirk., the problem in translating the word Zina is this, it is commonly acceptable in the English speaking countries to have sex outside the wedlock as long as you are not married, i.e. it is acceptable moral to do so, therefore you can not really find an accurate word in English to interpret the Arabic word Zina, possibly there is a word to do the job which I am still in the look for and will keep asking some professional English speakers to guide me to such word. Anyway, you, me and everyone on this web site must agree that the Arabic word Zina covers married/unmarried men and women who have sex outside what is legally allowed in the Quran.
Also, the words: And go not nigh to fornication does not conclusively mean that Zina is Haram literally, however the act of Zina was described next as: إِنَّهُ كَانَ فَاحِشَةً وَسَاءَ سَبِيلًا, i.e. surely it is an indecency and an evil way, clearly Zina is described as Fahisha, and because we read in the following verse that Allah has prohibited Al Fawahish (the Plural of Fahisha), i.e. Allah has prohibited indecencies, then Zina must be Haram according to Allah:
Say: Indeed My Lord has prohibited the indecencies, what is apparent of them and what is concealed, and the sin and the trespasses without justice, and that you associate with Allah that for which He has not sent down any authority, and that you say against Allah what you do not know. [Al Quran ; 7:33]
قُلْ إِنَّمَا حَرَّمَ رَبِّيَ الْفَوَاحِشَ مَا ظَهَرَ مِنْهَا وَمَا بَطَنَ وَالإِثْمَ وَالْبَغْيَ بِغَيْرِ الْحَقِّ وَأَن تُشْرِكُواْ بِاللّهِ مَا لَمْ يُنَزِّلْ بِهِ سُلْطَانًا وَأَن تَقُولُواْ عَلَى اللّهِ مَا لاَ تَعْلَمُونَ (33)
-> See: قُلْ إِنَّمَا حَرَّمَ رَبِّيَ الْفَوَاحِشَ مَا ظَهَرَ مِنْهَا وَمَا بَطَنَ, i.e. Say: Indeed My Lord has prohibited the indecencies, what is apparent of them and what is concealed, not just Al Fawahish are prohibited but any apparent or concealed one is prohibited, this clearly means that Zina is prohibited, i.e. having sex outside what is allowed in the Quran is prohibited.
In addition to the above, in sura 24, we read clearly that the Zani/Zania may only marry Zani/Zania or Mushrik/Mushrikah, but on the other hand a believer should never marry a Zani or a Zania, let?????????????????????¢??s have a look, again I will use Shakir tranlsation:
The fornicator shall not marry any but a fornicatress or idolatress, and (as for) the fornicatress, none shall marry her but a fornicator or an idolater; and it is forbidden to the believers. [Al Quran ; 24:3]
الزَّانِي لَا يَنْكِحُ إِلَّا زَانِيَةً أَوْ مُشْرِكَةً وَالزَّانِيَةُ لَا يَنْكِحُهَا إِلَّا زَانٍ أَوْ مُشْرِكٌ ۚ وَحُرِّمَ ذَٰلِكَ عَلَى الْمُؤْمِنِينَ (3)
-> See how clear it is, not just Zina is Haram but Zina is Haram as well marrying a Zani or a Zania is haram for any believer, see how it is said: The fornicator shall not marry any but a fornicatress or idolatress, and (as for) the fornicatress, none shall marry her but a fornicator or an idolater; and it is forbidden to the believers.
I will take the chance to expose the ignorance of the two life dismissals HM and Cassandra regarding the Arabic word Farg, as further down in the same sura 24, Allah has commanded the believing men and the believing women to do a couple of things, let?????????????????????¢??s have a look:
30- Say to the believing men that they cast down their looks and guard their private parts; that is purer for them; surely Allah is Aware of what they do.
31- And say to the believing women that they cast down their looks and guard their private parts and do not display their ornaments except what appears thereof, and let them wear their head-coverings over their bosoms, and not display their ornaments except to their husbands or their fathers, or the fathers of their husbands, or their sons, or the sons of their husbands, or their brothers, or their brothers' sons, or their sisters' sons, or their women, or those whom their right hands possess, or the male servants not having need (of women), or the children who have not attained knowledge of what is hidden of women; and let them not strike their feet so that what they hide of their ornaments may be known; and turn to Allah all of you, O believers! so that you may be successful. [Al Quran ; 24:30-31]
-> In verse 24:30, can you see what the believing men are commanded to do: قُلْ لِلْمُؤْمِنِينَ يَغُضُّوا مِنْ أَبْصَارِهِمْ وَيَحْفَظُوا فُرُوجَهُمْ , Say to the believing men that they cast down their looks and guard their private parts, see the word فُرُوجَهُمْ , Furjahum which is a masculine plural, i.e. their (the men) private parts, if the word means Vaginas, then the verse above is talking about men with vaginas, hahahahah, the freak and confused enemy of Islam, dumb and dumber aka HM and Cassie, have been exposed, therefore the word Farg, is a generic word that means the parts of the human body that should not be exposed (private) according to the Quran, with men, it has to be at least their dicks, their balls and their bums.
-> Now, in verse 24:31 we read the same things and more that are commanded to do by the believing women: وَقُلْ لِلْمُؤْمِنَاتِ يَغْضُضْنَ مِنْ أَبْصَارِهِنَّ وَيَحْفَظْنَ فُرُوجَهُنَّ , And say to the believing women that they cast down their looks and guard their private parts, see the word فُرُوجَهُنَّ , Furjahunna, which is feminine plural, i.e. their (the women) private parts, which again is a generic word that means the parts of the human body that should not be exposed according to the Quran, with the women, it has to be at least their vaginas, their bums and their boobs. In fact the same verse has told us what the believing woman should expose: and do not display their ornaments except what appears thereof, and let them wear their head-coverings over their bosoms, and not display their ornaments except to their husbands or their fathers, or the fathers of their husbands, or their sons, or the sons of their husbands, or their brothers, or their brothers' sons, or their sisters' sons, or their women, or those whom their right hands possess, or the male servants not having need (of women), or the children who have not attained knowledge of what is hidden of women; and let them not strike their feet so that what they hide of their ornaments may be known; can you see how detailed the commands are for the believing women to what they should expose and to whom. It really implies one thing, that the women bodies should be respected and the women themselves should work to gain such respect to their own bodies, unlike those ignorant women in all societies who enjoy showing the humps and bumps in their bodies so they expose it to strangers with no shame
Now, before I move on to the verse in question 24:33 to reply to the stupid allegation by some ignorant kafirs who strive to destroy the religion of Islam with manipulations AS THEY ADMITTED THEMSELVES, that Allah may forgive the pimps who force chaste women into prostitution against the women desire, I could not skip verse 24:32, let?????????????????????¢??s have a look, again I will use Shakir translation for now despite it is not 100% accurate:
And marry those among you who are single and those who are fit among your male slaves and your female slaves; if they are needy, Allah will make them free from want out of His grace; and Allah is Ample-giving, Knowing. [Al Quran ; 24:32]
وَأَنْكِحُوا الْأَيَامَىٰ مِنْكُمْ وَالصَّالِحِينَ مِنْ عِبَادِكُمْ وَإِمَائِكُمْ ۚ إِنْ يَكُونُوا فُقَرَاءَ يُغْنِهِمُ اللَّهُ مِنْ فَضْلِهِ ۗ وَاللَّهُ وَاسِعٌ عَلِيمٌ (32)
-> Can you see the great teaching of the Quran, this is morality at its maximum, the verse commands the believing men and the believing women to marry the slaves from the women and the salves from the men if they are pious because those slaves are poor: And marry those among you who are single and those who are fit among your male slaves and your female slaves; if they are needy, Allah will make them free from want out of His grace; and Allah is Ample-giving, Knowing. , Shakir ignorantly translated the word Saliheen as fit, which is totally wrong, the word should be translated to pious, i.e. And marry those among you who are single and those who are pious among your male slaves and your female slaves; if they are needy, see how great the teaching of the Quran is, this is what the ignorant Kafirs can not see while it is so obvious for a child, certainly this must confirm the veil that is set upon their eyes, another undeniable fact regarding the accuracy of the Quran in describing what we see around us at any moment of time.
What the Kafirs want to only see from the whole sura is verse 24:33, and not just that, they think that they found a bit of room to manipulate to serve their own retarded desire, this is actually another impressive fact about the Quran that I have witnessed so many times in so many years, the Arabic words are put in a way to confuse the Kafirs further, another undeniable fact regarding the accuracy of the Quran when it told us many times that the Kafirs will not understand the Quran. Let?????????????????????¢??s study the stupid allegation by some ignorant kafirs who strive to destroy the religion of Islam with manipulations AS THEY ADMITTED THEMSELVES, they allege that Allah will forgive the pimps who force chaste women into prostitution against the women desire:
And let those who do not find the means to marry keep chaste until Allah makes them free from want out of His grace. And (as for) those who ask for a writing from among those whom your right hands possess, give them the writing if you know any good in them, and give them of the wealth of Allah which He has given you; and do not compel your slave girls to prostitution, when they desire to keep chaste, in order to seek the frail good of this world's life; and whoever compels them, then surely after their compulsion Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. [Al Quran ; 24:33]
وَلْيَسْتَعْفِفِ الَّذِينَ لَا يَجِدُونَ نِكَاحًا حَتَّىٰ يُغْنِيَهُمُ اللَّهُ مِنْ فَضْلِهِ ۗ وَالَّذِينَ يَبْتَغُونَ الْكِتَابَ مِمَّا مَلَكَتْ أَيْمَانُكُمْ فَكَاتِبُوهُمْ إِنْ عَلِمْتُمْ فِيهِمْ خَيْرًا ۖ وَآتُوهُمْ مِنْ مَالِ اللَّهِ الَّذِي آتَاكُمْ ۚ وَلَا تُكْرِهُوا فَتَيَاتِكُمْ عَلَى الْبِغَاءِ إِنْ أَرَدْنَ تَحَصُّنًا لِتَبْتَغُوا عَرَضَ الْحَيَاةِ الدُّنْيَا ۚ وَمَنْ يُكْرِهْهُنَّ فَإِنَّ اللَّهَ مِنْ بَعْدِ إِكْرَاهِهِنَّ غَفُورٌ رَحِيمٌ (33)
-> Verse 24:33 contains a lot of commands, firstly for those who can not afford the cost of marriage: And let those who do not find the means to marry keep chaste until Allah makes them free from want out of His grace. , certainly pimping can not be of any chaste. The verse then moved on to talk about another command which is when marrying from Ma Malakat Aymanikum: And (as for) those who ask for a writing from among those whom your right hands possess, give them the writing if you know any good in them, , the writing is the marriage certificate (Al kitab), i.e. they should seek marriage from Ma Malakat Aymanikum, you know all, that I disagree to how Shakir translated Ma Malakat Aymanikum, as I believe it should mean what your OATHS posses, however I will just keep it as is for now, however you can see how confused he is, in the previous verse 24:32 Allah was talking about marrying from the slaves for bith the men and the women using the words: عِبَادِكُمْ وَإِمَائِكُمْ , Ibadakum Wa Imaakum, i.e. the male slaves and the female slaves, the singular od each word is Abd and Ammah, i.e. a male slave, and a female slave, therefore Ma Malakat Aymanikum in this verse can not mean slaves, however let?????????????????????¢??s assume for argument sake that it means slaves, we read in the verse that the believers are encouraged to marry from them and they should also: and give them of the wealth of Allah which He has given you; , how great the teachings of this great book so far. In the mind of the retarded kafirs all these great teachings will take a sharp turn all of a sudden into the world of immorality and pimping, how retraded those filthy kafirs are, the next bit in the verse is yet another command that is dealing with a very common problem from so early days of the human existence on earth, it is the abuse of the weak women by some retarded thugs, simply they use the insecurity and weakness of many young women and force them into prostitution, a common trade in all generations, obviously the thugs are making a lot of money through them, while they give them peanuts at the end of the day, many women had no choice from the beginning and just been raised to be prostitutes, and many other who accepted it first then when they started to realize how dark, filthy and insecure it is, they try to bail out, yet many can not, threats against bailing out is part of the contract, and certainly many women of those innocent victims are killed, in fact just less than 3 weeks ago, they found in Sydney two Chinese prostitutes slaughtered (their necks was severed) in their apartment, horrifying, this is a very common business venture in Australia, they bring many Asian women to Australia with a fake promise of great work and study then they force them into prostitution, here is what I found about such crime:
Later on, they discovered that they were working as prostitutes, they yet to find the killers but the police are guessing that they were killed by their pimps. No one of you can not deny this fact about many women who refuse from the beginning to be prostitutes or accept then try to bail out later, that they are forced into prostitution by men and even by women, verse 24:33 is not dealing with the pimping sin, the sin is clearly part of a Zina ring, i.e. a prostitution ring, i.e. Fahisha ring, i.e. pimping is Haram and the pimps are not really forced into pimping, they rather force others to work for them. The verse is dealing with what Allah will do with those innocent women who desire to be chaste yet they are forced into prostitution against their desires: وَلَا تُكْرِهُوا فَتَيَاتِكُمْ عَلَى الْبِغَاءِ , and do not compel your slave girls to prostitution,, firstly, Shakir faulted big times in here, the Arabic word Fatayatakum can not mean your slave girls, this is just so stupid by him, it is like the women mentioned in 24:31 are the slaves, and in 24:32 are the slaves and in 24:33 are also the slaves, well the word Fatayatakum only means your young women, i.e. the men or women should not force their young women into prostitution, i.e. the men or women should not force their young women into Zina, i.e. the men or women should not force their young women into Fahisha, that is, if the young women desire to be chaste: إِنْ أَرَدْنَ تَحَصُّنًا , when they desire to keep chaste,, obviously the verse can not be talking about forcing those women who desire not to be chaste, because they need no force, they are happy with it.
Remember when I told you that those pimps take most of what those women do while giving them peanuts, why they do so you reckon?, well the next bit is the exact answer: لِتَبْتَغُوا عَرَضَ الْحَيَاةِ الدُّنْيَا ۚ , in order to seek the frail good of this world's life; , i.e. they want to make money by any means even if haram.
Here we reach the most important part, the part which the kafir enemy of Islam manipulate to serve their own retarded desires: وَمَنْ يُكْرِهْهُنَّ فَإِنَّ اللَّهَ مِنْ بَعْدِ إِكْرَاهِهِنَّ غَفُورٌ رَحِيمٌ , Wa Mn Yukrihihunna Fa Inn Allah Min Baad IKRAHIHINNA Ghafour Rahim, i.e. and whoever compels them, then surely after their compulsion Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. . Now, an important question should be raised: who are the ones who will be forgiven:
1) Is it the pimps who forced their young women into prostitution while the young women desire to be chaste?
OR
2) Is it the young women who were forced into prostititution while they desire to be chaste?
OR
3) Is it 1 and 2 together, i.e. the pimps and the young women will be forgiven?
The answer to such question that is confusing the hell out of the already confused kafirs is really simple for anyone who knows a a biit of logic and/or a bit of Arabic grammar, but the Muslims should know well that in such department all the goons of FFI are a bunch of losers, let me prove to you that they are indeed losers even if they know no Arabic grammar:
Logically speaking, if possibility # 1 or possibility # 2 is invalid, it means that possibility # 3 is invalid automatically. i.e. let?????????????????????¢??s concentrate on possibility # 1 and # 2 first:
1) Is it the pimps who forced their young women into prostitution while the young women desire to be chaste?
This possibility can never be valid for two reasons, a logical reason and a grammar reason:
A- The logical reason:
The pimps are already doing Fahisha which is running a Zina ring, i.e. something that is Haram, now, it makes no sense to any sane human that committing further mischief in the land by forcing their young women into their Zina ring while the young women desire to be chaste, that the pimps?????????????????????¢?? fahisha and their second crime against the young women will be forgiven, only the retarded kafir enemy of Islam have the mentality to think so.
B- The grammar reason:
If the verse mean to forgive the crime of the pimps which is forcing their young women into prostitution then this is how the Arabic words SHOULD have been stated:
وَمَنْ يُكْرِهْهُنَّ فَإِنَّ اللَّهَ مِنْ بَعْدِ إِكْرَاهكْمَِ غَفُورٌ رَحِيمٌ , Wa Mn Yukrihihunna Fa Inn Allah Min Baad IKRAHIKUM Ghafour Rahim, i.e. and whoever compels them, then surely after your compulsion Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. , the highlighted red word إِكْرَاهكْمَِ , IKRAHIKUM, i.e. YOUR compulsion must be masculine plural direct speech because the order was a direct speech (Do not force), because we are talking about compulsion that is most likely committed by men, and even if by men and women, then under the Arabic grammar, masculine plural must be used for a group of males and females, the bottom line is this the compulsion must be referring to its committers if that compulsion is the one to be forgiven. and in this case it has to be the compulsion of the pimps using the damir KUM to relate it to the pimps.
Let?????????????????????¢??s now see what the real words used in the verse:
وَمَنْ يُكْرِهْهُنَّ فَإِنَّ اللَّهَ مِنْ بَعْدِ إِكْرَاهِهِنَّ غَفُورٌ رَحِيمٌ , Wa Mn Yukrihihunna Fa Inn Allah Min Baad IKRAHIHUNNA Ghafour Rahim, i.e. and whoever compels them, then surely after their compulsion Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. , the highlighted blue word إِكْرَاهِهِنَّ , IKRAHIHUNNA, i.e. THEIR compulsion, is feminine plural absent speech, because we are talking about the compulsion the absent young girls are forced into, which is to commit Zina while they desire to keep chaste, this is very important, because in such case the young girls are forced into something that is 100% HARAM and the doers of such prohibited act are promised with great punishment by Allah, so what should happen to them after they have been forced into the Haram? Well they will be forgiven, it is all about the innocent young women upon whom have been preyed by thugs, it is not about the thugs you stupid bunch of kafirs bound to hell, that it why the word إِكْرَاهِهِنَّ , IKRAHIHUNNA, i.e. THEIR compulsion, it is feminine plural. whithe the damir HUNNA to relate it to the young women.
Here you have it, I totally demolished their two stupid allegations:
1) The word Farg means private parts and applies for men and women, it can never mean vagina.
2) Verse 24:33 is talking about forgiving the innocent young women who were forced into prostitution (Zina), an act that is Haram, by a bunch of thugs while the young women desire to be chaste.
This has to be another impressive slam:
# 36
Last edited by AhmedBahgat on Wed 03 Dec, 2008 6:41 pm; edited 1 time in total
Posted:
Tue 02 Dec, 2008 10:52 pm
AhmedBahgat Site Admin
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AhmedBahgat wrote:
Why don't you explain his valid argument to us again?
Aksel, Ankersen wrote:
Hello Ahmed. Sura 4 verse 127. Do these words " يتامى النساء" I underlined not mean, "orphan girls"?
Orphaned females =/= adult women. Koran used Nisa to refer to females among the orphans.
Hey again
Well, because you acted dumb, by following a bunch of ignorant freaks on FFI web site, I have to slam dunk you, but this is going to be a quick one because of the high degree of stupidity of your argument, i.e. one verse is enough to expose your ignorance, let's have a look:
And test the orphansuntil they reach the age of marriage; and if you find in them maturity, then pay to them their money, and do not consume it extravagantly nor wastefully, lest they grow up; and whoever is rich, let him abstain, and whoever is poor, let him eat kindly; and if you have paid to them, their money, then call witnesses in their presence; and it is enough that Allah is a Reckoner. [Al Quran ; 4:6]
وَابْتَلُواْ الْيَتَامَى حَتَّىَ إِذَا بَلَغُواْ النِّكَاحَ فَإِنْ آنَسْتُم مِّنْهُمْ رُشْدًا فَادْفَعُواْ إِلَيْهِمْ أَمْوَالَهُمْ وَلاَ تَأْكُلُوهَا إِسْرَافًا وَبِدَارًا أَن يَكْبَرُواْ وَمَن كَانَ غَنِيًّا فَلْيَسْتَعْفِفْ وَمَن كَانَ فَقِيرًا فَلْيَأْكُلْ بِالْمَعْرُوفِ فَإِذَا دَفَعْتُمْ إِلَيْهِمْ أَمْوَالَهُمْ فَأَشْهِدُواْ عَلَيْهِمْ وَكَفَى بِاللّهِ حَسِيبًا (6)
-> See: وَابْتَلُواْ الْيَتَامَى حَتَّىَ إِذَا بَلَغُواْ النِّكَاحَ, Wa Ibtalu Al Yatama Hatta Iza Balaghu Al Nakah, i.e. And test the orphans until they reach the age of marriage, can you see the words:
بَلَغُواْ النِّكَاحَ, i.e. They reach the age pf marriage, i.e. when they reach puberty, in fact this is what the Arabs use to express reaching puberty, Balagha, possibly you need to check with a knowledgeable kafir like All_Brains to confirm that you have been slammed
Here you have it, 4:6 clearly talks about orphans who reach the age of Nakah, i.e. the age of marriage, i.e. the age of puberty.
And this should be our first slam dunk in our fourth dozen of slams:
# 37
Posted:
Thu 04 Dec, 2008 7:11 pm
AhmedBahgat Site Admin
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Ahmed chose to reply to one of the life dismissals:
-> Se: وَابْتَلُواْ الْيَتَامَى حَتَّىَ إِذَا بَلَغُواْ النِّكَاحَ, Wa Ibtalu Al Yatama Hatta Iza Balaghu Al Nakah, i.e. And test the orphans until they reach the age of marriage, can you see the words:
بَلَغُواْ النِّكَاحَ, i.e. They reach the age pf marriage, i.e. when they reach puberty, in fact this is what the Arabs use to express reaching puberty, Balagha, possibly you need to check with a knowledgeable kafir like All_Brains to confirm that you have been slammed
Here you have it, 4:6 clearly talks about orphans who reach the age of Nakah, i.e. the age of marriage, i.e. the age of puberty.
And this should be our first slam dunk in our fourth dozen of slams, to watch it, go there:
"Balagha" is used in Quran in some places only to prompt a meaning ?????????????????????¢??Reach?????????????????????¢?????????????????????? And when it meant reaching the age of something, Quran specified it. We see in Quran:
Blah
Blah
Use your Quran, and answer.
Ignorant manipulator of FFI, 4:6 is clear, it says:
بَلَغُواْ النِّكَاحَ, i.e. They reach the age pf marriage
Can you see what they reached you manipulator, again they reach النِّكَاحَ, i.e. the age of marriage, i.e. the age of puberty, I know you must be freaking out and will start running around FFI like a Zebra, well you have been exposed again, and again, and again, this is going to continue forever, pal
Also your stupid argument that if the Quran is talking about reaching the age of something, the Quran specified it shows how stupid, confused and manipulated you are, that is exactly what happened in 4:6, mister smart
The Quran is talking about reaching the age of Nakah, i.e. Marriage, i.e. Puberty, i.e. the Quran SPECIFIED what age we are reaching, it will be stupid to put an age for it, like 10, 11 or 24 years old, because it differs from a human to a human, but I know this must be too hard for a dumb like you to understand
You are back in your life dismissal wing.
Posted:
Thu 04 Dec, 2008 8:40 pm
AhmedBahgat Site Admin
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sum wrote:
We are lead to believe, according to Islam, that each person has two Recording Angels, one on the left shoulder and one on the right. Their function is to record all the good and bad deeds, words and thoughts of the person and present these to Allah on Judgement Day.
This implies that the Recording Angels can distinguish the good from the bad. It also implies that Allah is unable to keep tabs on his creation otherwise there would be no need for the Recording Angels. If muslims claim that Allah is omniscient then why do the Recording Angels have to inform Allah about the person`s deeds, words and thoughts on Judgement Day when Allah already knows?
Will the muslims please explain why the Recording Angels are needed and if they actually believe that they exist?
sum
Good morning all
Today?????????????????????¢??s subject is our slam dunk # 38
As you can read above, a confused Doctor who is a clear enemy of Islam on FFI is puzzled, why the Recording Angels are needed?
His question proves the FFI goons lack of knowledge concerning the Quran, his question was answered clearly in the Quran, I myself managed to work out the logical point behind those recording angels so many years ago before even knowing that the Quran disclosed it, not ironically the reason I logically thought of was the exact same reason stated in the Quran.
Simply the records by the recording angels are not required for Allah, these records are required for the humans only, i.e. it is the book of evidences against the human, in this case each human can read his/her book and convict him/her self, what a mighty planning by Allah, let?????????????????????¢??s have a look at a few verses:
13- And (for) every human, We have imposed his fate upon his neck, and We will produce to him on the day of resurrection a book which he will encounter wide open.
14- Read your book; sufficient is yourself today against you as a reckoner. [Al Quran ; 17:13-14]
وَكُلَّ إِنْسَانٍ أَلْزَمْنَاهُ طَائِرَهُ فِي عُنُقِهِ ۖ وَنُخْرِجُ لَهُ يَوْمَ الْقِيَامَةِ كِتَابًا يَلْقَاهُ مَنْشُورًا (13)
-> See how clear the verse above are: And (for) every human, We have imposed his fate upon his neck , i.e. every human is responsible for the self, no one bears the sins of another, and on the day of judgment every human must encounter his/her book wide open: and We will produce to him on the day of resurrection a book which he will encounter wide open., how clear, now what this book will be used for? The answer is in the next verse:
-> See: اقْرَأْ كِتَابَكَ كَفَىٰ بِنَفْسِكَ الْيَوْمَ عَلَيْكَ حَسِيبًا , i.e. Read your book; sufficient is yourself today against you as a reckoner., HOW CLEAR. No doubt that if such ignorant goon of FFI read the Quran he would have found the answer, but you should know that the goon is not after answers, rather he is after mocking the religion of Allah, that is why he will always look stupid because he lacks the knowedge to what is said in the Quran
The Quran said far more regarding the subject, let?????????????????????¢??s see what will happen when the criminals like Doccy and his gang read their books:
And the Book shall be placed, then you will see the criminals fearing from what is in it, and they will say: Ah! woe to us! what a book is this! it does not omit a small one nor a great one, but recorded them (all); and what they had done they shall find present (there); and your Lord does not deal unjustly with anyone. [Al Quran ; 18:49]
وَوُضِعَ الْكِتَابُ فَتَرَى الْمُجْرِمِينَ مُشْفِقِينَ مِمَّا فِيهِ وَيَقُولُونَ يَا وَيْلَتَنَا مَالِ هَٰذَا الْكِتَابِ لَا يُغَادِرُ صَغِيرَةً وَلَا كَبِيرَةً إِلَّا أَحْصَاهَا ۚ وَوَجَدُوا مَا عَمِلُوا حَاضِرًا ۗ وَلَا يَظْلِمُ رَبُّكَ أَحَدًا (49)
-> Firstly the book of evidences will be brought to each one of those criminals: And the Book shall be placed , after the criminals have a read through it while they are shaking like cowards: then you will see the criminals fearing from what is in it , they will say: Ah! woe to us! what a book is this! it does not omit a small one nor a great one, but recorded them (all); , at this point of time, the criminals can not deny or argue the charges against them, i.e. every small or big act that they have done all their life is recorded and now is in front of their own eyes: and what they had done they shall find present (there); , one of the obvious objectives of such book of evidences is to force the criminals to convict themselves, i.e. THEY WILL HAVE NO OTHER OPTION BUT TO PLEAD GUILTY YOUR HONOR, , another objective of such books of evidences is to prove to those criminals that and your Lord does not deal unjustly with anyone.
As you have noticed that I stated the following: one of the obvious objectives of such book of evidences is to force the criminals to convict themselves, again, this was stated clearly in the Quran:
They shall say: Our Lord! twice didst Thou make us subject to death, and twice hast Thou given us life, so we do confess our faults; is there then a way to get out? [Al Quran ; 40:11]
قَالُوا رَبَّنَا أَمَتَّنَا اثْنَتَيْنِ وَأَحْيَيْتَنَا اثْنَتَيْنِ فَاعْتَرَفْنَا بِذُنُوبِنَا فَهَلْ إِلَىٰ خُرُوجٍ مِنْ سَبِيلٍ (11)
-> See above what is going to happen: so we do confess our faults; , well, what do you is logical that they might be thinking next, I say to think of a way out, see: is there then a way to get out? , hahahah, dream on criminals, there will be no way out, the next verses should confirm it for you:
10- And they shall say: Had we but listened or pondered, we should not have been among the inmates of the burning fire.
11- So they shall acknowledge their sins, but far will be (forgiveness) from the inmates of the burning fire. [Al Quran ; 67:10-11]
وَقَالُوا لَوْ كُنَّا نَسْمَعُ أَوْ نَعْقِلُ مَا كُنَّا فِي أَصْحَابِ السَّعِيرِ (10)
فَاعْتَرَفُوا بِذَنْبِهِمْ فَسُحْقًا لِأَصْحَابِ السَّعِيرِ (11)
-> Firstly, the criminals like Doctor sum, will also say: Had we but listened or pondered, we should not have been among the inmates of the burning fire. , then they will plead guilty: So they shall acknowledge their sins, , and consequently they should be distant away in the fire: but far will be (forgiveness) from the inmates of the burning fire.
Here you have it, the Quran clearly answered the question raised by another Kafir who knew nothing about the Quran, ironically though, he is deluded enough to believe that he knows a lot about the Quran
I guess for the true Muslim, watching those inmates in the fire is going to be a great Showtime, well, let?????????????????????¢??s get done with our Showtime today, our 38th Slam Dunk:
# 38
Posted:
Fri 05 Dec, 2008 8:03 am
AhmedBahgat Site Admin
Status: Age: 59 Faith: Islam Gender:
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Aksel, Ankersen wrote:
Hello Ahmed
You used to say that "Lam Yahidna" in verse 65:4 does not mean negation in the past tense (i.e. a little girl who has never had menstruated) because it lacks the preposition "Min Qabl". Do you still believe this?
Koran Sura 24 verse 13 wrote:
لولا جاؤوا عليه باربعة شهداء فاذ لم ياتوا بالشهداء فاولئك عند الله هم الكاذبون
~~~~ ?????????????????????¢??Why did they not bring four witnesses??????????????????????¢??????????????????????~~~~
فاذ = ?????????????????????¢??so then?????????????????????¢??????????????????????
لم = *negation of the past tense*
ياتوا = ?????????????????????¢??they bring?????????????????????¢??????????????????????
بال = prefix meaning ?????????????????????¢??in the?????????????????????¢??????????????????????
شهداء = ?????????????????????¢??witnesses?????????????????????¢??????????????????????
فاولئك = ?????????????????????¢??so those?????????????????????¢??????????????????????
عند = ?????????????????????¢??with?????????????????????¢??????????????????????
الله = ?????????????????????¢??Allah?????????????????????¢??????????????????????
هم = ?????????????????????¢??they (are)?????????????????????¢??????????????????????
الكاذبون = ?????????????????????¢??liars?????????????????????¢??????????????????????
~~~~ ?????????????????????¢??Since they did not bring forth witnesses, those (accusers) are liars in the sight of Allah?????????????????????¢?????????????????????? ~~~~
The accusers are liars because they did not bring forth four witnesses. The accuser?????????????????????¢??s present status is a direct result of what they have done. Lam must equal negation in the past tense as anything else would not make sense here. Note that there is no ?????????????????????¢??Min Qabal?????????????????????¢?????????????????????? necessary.
Good morning
You must be so desterate after my very strong Quran arguments are demolishing www.faithfreedom.com propagandas about islam
The verse above is not denying any past, mister smart
The verse above is talking about present, i.e. some people at present, accused a woman of being a whore, therefore they must bring 4 witnesses otherwise they will liars and must be lashed 80 lashes
Imagine now that I am an accuser who accused a Muslim woman of being a whore, in year 2007, on that year I managed to bring 4 witnesses, therefore I will be considered honest
Now assume we are in year 2008 and me again accused another woman of being a whore, but I faild to bring 4 witnesses this time, this mean that I am a liar and must be lashed 80 lashes
I.e. Lam did not deny my past
Now I hope that you are smart enough to recognise your stupidity
My example above can not be refuted, however I am expecting that you will run around FFI like a confused Zebra trying to justify the goons crap, therefore you should expect what will happen next
Salam
Last edited by AhmedBahgat on Tue 09 Dec, 2008 8:07 am; edited 1 time in total
Posted:
Sun 07 Dec, 2008 12:06 pm
AhmedBahgat Site Admin
Status: Age: 59 Faith: Islam Gender:
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Good morning
Look at the new level of stupidity that FFI goons have achived:
antineoliberalaxgrinder of FFI said:
AhmedBahgat. Could you please explain the following apparent contradiction between Koran verse 60:8:
Quote:
Allah forbids you not with regard to those who fight you not for (your) Faith nor drive you out of your homes from dealing kindly and justly with them: ...
and verse 24.2 in which Allah is clearly prohibiting Muslims from dealing kindly with adulterers:
Quote:
The woman and the man guilty of adultery or fornication,- flog each of them with a hundred stripes: Let not compassion move you in their case, in a matter prescribed by Allah
It does not stipulate that adulterers must first have fought the Muslims for their faith or driven them from their homes in order to qualify for a merciless flogging. I await your explanation for this glaring Koranic contradiction.
antineoliberalaxgrinder wrote:
AhmedBahgat. Could you please explain the following apparent contradiction between Koran verse 60:8:
Sure, However I reject the word ?????????????????????¢??apparent?????????????????????¢?? that you used because if it was ?????????????????????¢??apparent?????????????????????¢?? to you, why you need someone to explain it to you? Simply you started your comment by apparently contradicting yourself.
Let me say, that this alleged Quran contradiction can not be apparent to you because you need someone who knows the Quran to explain it to you, right?
antineoliberalaxgrinder wrote:
Quote:
Allah forbids you not with regard to those who fight you not for (your) Faith nor drive you out of your homes from dealing kindly and justly with them: ...
Let me bring 60:8 in here
8- Allah does not forbid you respecting those who have not made war against you on account of (your) religion, and have not driven you forth from your homes, that you show them kindness and deal with them justly; surely Allah loves the doers of justice. [The Quran ; 60:8]
لَا يَنْهَاكُمُ اللَّهُ عَنِ الَّذِينَ لَمْ يُقَاتِلُوكُمْ فِي الدِّينِ وَلَمْ يُخْرِجُوكُم مِّن دِيَارِكُمْ أَن تَبَرُّوهُمْ وَتُقْسِطُوا إِلَيْهِمْ إِنَّ اللَّهَ يُحِبُّ الْمُقْسِطِينَ (8)
-> The verse above is simply saying that believers should show kindness to, and deal justly with, anyone of: those who have not made war against the Muslims on account of (their) religion, and have not driven the Muslims forth from their homes, a child should understand it, I say.
antineoliberalaxgrinder wrote:
and verse 24.2 in which Allah is clearly prohibiting Muslims from dealing kindly with adulterers:
Hmmm, so you started your alleged Quran contradiction alert with you contradicting yourself, then when you elaborated on your alleged Quran contradiction, you contradicted yourself again, what the hell is that, pal?
Before even reading 24:2, what is the bloody relation between the adulterers and those who have not made war against you on account of (your) religion, and have not driven you forth from your homes?
Well, do you reckon that those who have not made war against the Muslims on account of (their) religion, and have not driven the Muslims forth from their homes are adulterers?
Pal, it is not even worth bringing 24:2, I have to stop in here, you have taken FFI confusion to a new level, congratulation
It was so stupid that it will be a shame if I stamp it with my trade mark slam dunk, let me stamp it with another trade mark
Cheers
Last edited by AhmedBahgat on Fri 12 Dec, 2008 9:59 am; edited 1 time in total
Posted:
Tue 09 Dec, 2008 7:59 am
Windsor Pawn
Status: Age: 39 Faith: Islam Gender:
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Peace brother AhmedBahgat
Has any of those retards got a response to any of my comments? So far I can only see a response by Aksel, Ankersen which I will reply to later.
I will also write my own rebuttals to God's "throne" and alcohol in the Quran. I have been very busy for the last week os so. So hopefully I will get all of this done by the end of this week.
Peace.
Posted:
Wed 10 Dec, 2008 7:16 am
AhmedBahgat Site Admin
Status: Age: 59 Faith: Islam Gender:
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Windsor wrote:
Peace brother AhmedBahgat
Has any of those retards got a response to any of my comments? So far I can only see a response by Aksel, Ankersen which I will reply to later.
I will also write my own rebuttals to God's "throne" and alcohol in the Quran. I have been very busy for the last week os so. So hopefully I will get all of this done by the end of this week.
Peace.
Salam mate
No man, no replies yet, they are a bunch of confused goons
Take care
Posted:
Wed 10 Dec, 2008 7:45 am
AhmedBahgat Site Admin
Status: Age: 59 Faith: Islam Gender:
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Good morning all
It seems Ugly is determined to be slam dunked, let me make his wish comes true:
Islamis_Tashit wrote:
only the hadiths say that Muhammad was illiterate. The Quran does not expressly mention this. I know Muslims who interpret the Quran as not saying illiterate prophet, but rather the prophet of the illiterate, meaning the prophet who came to spread the message to the Arabs who were essentially illiterate while the Christians and Jews were literate.
AhmedBahgat wrote:
LOL, here is Ugly begging to be humiliated
Tell me Ugly:
What illiterate means to you IN ENGLISH?
Simple answer please, no Barbie stories if you don't mind
Islamis_Tashit wrote:
It means can't read, and some Muslims interpret the Quran as saying that Muhammad was the prophet of those who can't read (the arabs) rather than it saying that Muhammad couldn't read. So me giving you the definition of illiterate doesn't change what I said one iota. What is the matter with you? Read what I said again.
AhmedBahgat wrote:
Therefore if the Quran said that Mohammed could read not nor write then you have been slam dunked along with Idiolite
Islamis_Tashit wrote:
And I'm telling you that some Muslims interpret the Quran as saying that it says prophet of the illiterate rather than illiterate prophet.
The Quran never called Mohammed the prophet of the illiterate, looks like those confused Muslims are your neighbours in your barbie world, am I right?
Islamis_Tashit wrote:
What part didn't you understand the first time I said it? Go back and read it.
It is not that I do not understand it your idiot, it is all about rejecting it because the Quran does not support your and their allegation as I will show very shortly
Islamis_Tashit wrote:
If you disagree with this interpretation,
Exactly, it is about disagreement, but not an interpretation disagreement, there is nothing in the Quran to be interpreted in a way to imply such conclusion, in fact it is the contrary, what is in the Quran is not an implication rather a fact that the prophet did not know how to read nor write as I will show shortly.
Islamis_Tashit wrote:
then go talk to those Muslims who think that this is what the Quran really says.
Well, I do not need to go to anyone, they will be slam dunked along with you very shortly
Islamis_Tashit wrote:
Shees, what does it take to get you to understand a post??
Stop talking out of your bum, Ugly.
Islamis_Tashit wrote:
I thought Muslims weren't allowed to drink??
Confuse the subject tactics, well it is expected after you have been cornered and now it is the time for the final blow to get you slam dunked on my show.
Islamis_Tashit wrote:
I know people who could understand a post better than you with a belly full of Jack Daniels in them. :D I"m not as think as you drunk I am ossifer. :p
Dismissed
AhmedBahgat wrote:
The arabs are not mentioned in the verse you manipulator
Islamis_Tashit wrote:
They claim that prophet of the illiterate means the Arabs because the Arabs of that time were illiterate whereas most Jews and Christians were not. Get it? Get it?
Let me get the slam dunked:
Again you fool, the Quran never called directly or by implication that Mohammed is the prophet of the illiterates, because Mohammed reading and writing abilities (as verbs) were clearly denied by a Quran verse, let's have a look:
And you did not recite before it any book, nor did you transcribe one with your right hand, for then could those who say untrue things have doubted. [The Quran ; 29:48]
وَمَا كُنتَ تَتْلُو مِن قَبْلِهِ مِن كِتَابٍ وَلَا تَخُطُّهُ بِيَمِينِكَ إِذًا لَّارْتَابَ الْمُبْطِلُونَ (48)
-> Clearly 29:48 says وَمَا كُنتَ تَتْلُو مِن قَبْلِهِ مِن كِتَابٍ, And you did not recite before it any book,, i.e. Mohammad never read a book before the Quran completed, then it says وَلَا تَخُطُّهُ بِيَمِينِكَ, nor did you transcribe one with your right hand, some may still argue and say this means that Mohammad may have learnt how to read and write after the completion of the Quran revelation, . I said after the completion of the Quran revelation because what follows next indicates it shold have been the case otherwise the Kafirs at the time would have doubted him : إِذًا لَّارْتَابَ الْمُبْطِلُونَ, for then could those who say untrue things have doubted., i.e. Mohammad was illiterate before the revelation of the Quran and during the period of the Quran revelation because if he was literate, the people at his time would have doubted him. now Mohammed dies very shortly after the revelation of the last verse therefore it is safe and logical to say that Mohmmed did not read nor write a book all his life.
And finally:
# 39
Posted:
Fri 12 Dec, 2008 9:20 am
AhmedBahgat Site Admin
Status: Age: 59 Faith: Islam Gender:
Zodiac: Joined: Oct 16, 2006
Posts: 3236 Location: Australia
Post subject:
Ex-muslimah wrote:
To all those who replied to my angels in hell question, that was what I was thinking but it was for ahmed.
Exactly, my name is ahmed with an e,
Now, what you want me to answer exactly?
That how come the angels of love do such horrible things in hell?
Firstly, the angel being the sign of love under your flawed belief is rejected and dismissed, it simply violates what the Bible and the Quran said, for example we know well the story of Gomorrah which was destroyed by angels, that was not a sign of love, we also know of story in the Quran about the angels who were sent in Badr battle to help the weak Muslims in killing the criminals from the Kafirs, that can not be a sign of love, we also know from the Quran about the angels who are in charge of causing us to die, that is another sign that can not be love, we also know from the Quran that hell has 19 angels, those angels were clearly described with words that contradict your Barbie world dream that the angels are the sign of love, let's have a look:
O you who have believed! save yourselves and your families from a fire whose fuel is men and stones; over it are angels severe and strong, they do not disobey Allah in what He commands them, and do as they are commanded. [the Quran ; 66:6]
يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا قُوا أَنْفُسَكُمْ وَأَهْلِيكُمْ نَارًا وَقُودُهَا النَّاسُ وَالْحِجَارَةُ عَلَيْهَا مَلَائِكَةٌ غِلَاظٌ شِدَادٌ لَا يَعْصُونَ اللَّهَ مَا أَمَرَهُمْ وَيَفْعَلُونَ مَا يُؤْمَرُونَ (6)
-> See, impossible to classify the angels as signs of love, the above verse clearly warns the believers of a fire whose fuel is men and stones; over it are angels severe and strong,, this is because they have to do what they are commanded to do, they have no choices: they do not disobey Allah in what He commands them, and do as they are commanded.
Ex-muslimah wrote:
I still can't get over how twisted Islam is to completely degrade ANGELS, they are full of love, which Islam isn't :grr:
the one who is really twisted as well confused may be you, see, you want a god described by your own low desires, angels that do what you desire and even the judgement should be as you desire
I am totally the opposite to you of course, that is why you allege that Islam is twisted, in reality though, the possibility that you are the twisted one is highly plaussible, you only and relatively see the other side as twisted.
Posted:
Fri 12 Dec, 2008 9:43 am
AhmedBahgat Site Admin
Status: Age: 59 Faith: Islam Gender:
Zodiac: Joined: Oct 16, 2006
Posts: 3236 Location: Australia
Post subject:
Salam all,
One of the kafirs of FFI, brought in a stupid argument by another confused kafir who is asking are slave women equal to animals under Islam?, let's have a look:
planck of FFI wrote:
A possible re-interpretation of a few arabic words? I don't know arabic so I'm not sure if what's written below is true. But I thought I'd offer it up in this section to those of you who do study the quran.
Raymond Ibrahim: Are slave-girls in Islam equivalent to animals?
Many are now aware that the Koran?????????????????????¢??that is, Allah?????????????????????¢??s word?????????????????????¢??permits, not just polygamy, but forced concubinage (sex with captive women), according to Koran 4:3: ?????????????????????¢??Marry such women as seem good to you, two and three and four; but if you fear that you will not do justice, then only one, or what your right hands possess [captive women taken in war].?????????????????????¢?????????????????????? There is, however, an interesting, and very telling, linguistic aspect to this verse that is often overlooked?????????????????????¢??or intentionally obscured. The Arabic states: ?????????????????????¢??Ankahu [marry]?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¦ma [what] malakat [possess] aymankum [your right hands].?????????????????????¢??????????????????????
Oddly enough, the Arabic relative pronoun used to indicate these captive women is "ma": ma malakat aymankum, literally, ?????????????????????¢??what your right hands possess?????????????????????¢?????????????????????? (see Shakir?????????????????????¢??s acclaimed English translation which most literally translates this). In Arabic, when one refers to a rational being (i.e., a human), the word used is min, which means ?????????????????????¢??who(ever)?????????????????????¢??????????????????????; ma, on the other hand, refers only to things or animals?????????????????????¢??trees, rocks, dogs and cats?????????????????????¢??very much similar to the English ?????????????????????¢??it.?????????????????????¢?????????????????????? Thus, in proper Arabic the phrase might have been min malakat aymankum: ?????????????????????¢??who(ever) your rights hands possess.?????????????????????¢??????????????????????
For long I assumed this was but a stylistic matter. However, the highly revered Islamic scholar al-Qurtubi (d.1273) also makes this observation in vol. 5, p.12 of his authoritative 20-volume Tafsir Al Koran (Exegesis of the Koran). He points out that members of the human race should be referred to with min (who), whereas only ?????????????????????¢??inanimate objects?????????????????????¢?????????????????????? or ?????????????????????¢??brute beasts?????????????????????¢?????????????????????? should be referred to with ma (what).
Does this suggest that the Koran?????????????????????¢??s Arabic?????????????????????¢??touted as the most perfect Arabic?????????????????????¢??is flawed? Of course, no Muslim would allow for that. Nor need they, as this phenomenon (portraying concubines as non-human) accords well with a number of hadiths that place females and animals in the same category. Musnad Ibn Hanbal (vol. 2, p. 2992), for example, records Muhammad saying ?????????????????????¢??Women, dogs, and donkeys annul a man?????????????????????¢??s prayer.?????????????????????¢?????????????????????? Indeed, in Qurtubi?????????????????????¢??s same Tafsir (vol.15, p.172), after examining such hadiths, he writes, "A Woman may be likened to a sheep?????????????????????¢??even a cow or a camel?????????????????????¢??for all are ridden.?????????????????????¢??????????????????????
-----------------------------
And here is my slam to it:
His understanding to the word Ma is flawed
Certainly Ma can be used to refer to intelligent beings, here is a verse where it clearly refers to Allah Himself:
Nor do you serve Him Whom I serve: [The Quran ; 109:3]
وَلَا أَنْتُمْ عَابِدُونَ مَا أَعْبُدُ (3)
-> See Mohammed is saying to the kafirs: وَلَا أَنْتُمْ عَابِدُونَ مَا أَعْبُدُ, Wala Antum Aabidoon MA Aabud, i.e. Nor do you serve Him Whom I serve:
And I am also sure that Min may also be used for non intelligent beings, I may post a verse later inshaallah
The writer of such crap in your comment is certainly wrong and confused
Then I added:
Here is another example where the word Ma is used to refer to intelligent beings includiing humans:
Do you not see that Allah knows whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth? Nowhere is there a secret counsel between three persons but He is the fourth of them, nor (between) five but He is the sixth of them, nor less than that nor more but He is with them wheresoever they are; then He will inform them of what they did on the day of resurrection: surely Allah is Cognizant of all things. [The Quran ; 58:7]
أَلَمْ تَرَ أَنَّ اللَّهَ يَعْلَمُ مَا فِي السَّمَاوَاتِ وَمَا فِي الْأَرْضِ ۖ مَا يَكُونُ مِنْ نَجْوَىٰ ثَلَاثَةٍ إِلَّا هُوَ رَابِعُهُمْ وَلَا خَمْسَةٍ إِلَّا هُوَ سَادِسُهُمْ وَلَا أَدْنَىٰ مِنْ ذَٰلِكَ وَلَا أَكْثَرَ إِلَّا هُوَ مَعَهُمْ أَيْنَ مَا كَانُوا ۖ ثُمَّ يُنَبِّئُهُمْ بِمَا عَمِلُوا يَوْمَ الْقِيَامَةِ ۚ إِنَّ اللَّهَ بِكُلِّ شَيْءٍ عَلِيمٌ (7)
-> See Mohammed is saying to the kafirs: مَا فِي السَّمَاوَاتَِ , Ma Fi Alsamamwat, i.e. whatever is in the heavens, and مَا فِي الْأَرْضِ , Ma Fi Alard, i.e. whatever is in the earth which should cover all humans on earth.
Now, here is an example where the word Min is used with the ships and the cattle:
And He Who created pairs of all things, and made for you of the ships and the cattle what you ride on [The Quran ; 43:12]
وَالَّذِي خَلَقَ الْأَزْوَاجَ كُلَّهَا وَجَعَلَ لَكُمْ مِنَ الْفُلْكِ وَالْأَنْعَامِ مَا تَرْكَبُونَ (12)
-> See: مِنَ الْفُلْكِ وَالْأَنْعَام, Min Alfulk Wa AlanaamAlard, i.e. of the ships and the cattle
Here you have it again, the writer of such crap is 100% confused and never studied the Quran.
And finally came the third nock down which made the knowck out and the 40th slam:
What I just discovered which will make the writer of such crap to look like a clear cut idiot is the simple fact that the same verse 4:3 is referring to the second, third and fourth wife using the word Ma, let's have a look:
And if you fear that you cannot act justly with the orphans, then marry whoever pleased you from the women, two and three and four; but if you fear that you shall not act equitably (between them), then only one or what your oaths possess; this is more proper, that you may not deviate. [Al Quran ; 4:3]
وَإِنْ خِفْتُمْ أَلاَّ تُقْسِطُواْ فِي الْيَتَامَى فَانكِحُواْ مَا طَابَ لَكُم مِّنَ النِّسَاء مَثْنَى وَثُلاَثَ وَرُبَاعَ فَإِنْ خِفْتُمْ أَلاَّ تَعْدِلُواْ فَوَاحِدَةً أَوْ مَا مَلَكَتْ أَيْمَانُكُمْ ذَلِكَ أَدْنَى أَلاَّ تَعُولُواْ (3)
-> See: فَانكِحُواْ مَا طَابَ لَكُم, Fa'ankihu Ma Taba Lakum, i.e. marry whoever pleased you
Here you have it for the third time, but this time, it must be so embarrassing to such writer of such crap, however he achieved making it to my slam dunk show
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